8th edition [Archive] - Questing Knight Games

The Question

15-01-10, 06:54

Hey everyone i just thought I'd make this thread so we could share rumors about the new edition of warhammer fantasy.

Right here is what i have heard...

* Empire & Orcs in the new box set including new models for boar boys and knights.

* Miscasts now being modified by the amount of power dice used.

* Plus one combat resolution for having a wider frontage then your opponent.

Anyone else got any tasty treats?

1. True, I have seen 3ups of the new boar boyz.
2. Yes.
3. Not heard anything about this. You say this is based from the Skaven book. I play Skaven, and have not seen anything written down in the new book that collaborates this rumour, unless you are taking this from the photos of Skaven units. Hate to disappoint you, but I've been ranking my Clanrats 6 wide since 6th Edition, it lets me get more attacks in.

The Question

15-01-10, 06:59

I think chaos dwarfs are being done by a fantasy version of forge world :/

Another one for the mill

* no more partials for templates

Both this and the wider frontage come from the skaven army book.
Also release date should be somewhere around the start of 2011 so a year! :(

4. Correct
5. Don't know, but all the template using weapons in the Skaven book auto-hit everything under the template, so...
6. I've heard that the release date is this summer, don't know if this is true, but I hope so!:cool:

The Question

15-01-10, 07:06

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=64070&d=1246697505

3up plastic boar.

Warlord_Krumpit

16-01-10, 02:17

Thanks for the boar boy pics Mark. They look sweet! Much less static then the old ones. The six wide does come from the photos. It stems from the fact that Skaven are the first army book written with 8th in mind, thus there are probably people play testing 8th up at Games Workshop already. This would be more incentive for anything other then 5xN regiments for max rank bonus thus leading to more varied battle lines. Also no disappointment, I'm well aware the best way to rank up your units is what your usual opponents have plus one for the extra attack. I'm currently toying with the idea of a 10 x 5 unit of skeletons so my opponent can only benefit from one set of rank bonus...

Biff

19-01-10, 07:57

So any info on when 8th is likely to be released? I had a look last night but people seem to mainly pushing the idea that there will be an 8th because GW does a new edition every 4ish years

Dave

17-02-10, 01:05

http://firstranksecondrank.blogspot.com/2010/02/whfb-few-rumors-from-weekend.html

Col_Festus from the Bell of Lost Souls has a nice collection of rumors here, on supposedly good authority. All I can say is I'd be chuffed to bits if skaven really are in the new warhammer starter box.

Stan

17-02-10, 05:08

thats awesome news, and is certianly believeable given what we've seen so far.

come on new orc book, it is desperately needed :) as much as i love my goblins i wish they could win somthing!!!

dark iders and black knights ill be welcome additions too for a lot of players.

but i think rhinox cavalry boxes will sell out by the dozen, those things are scarily hard, and look awesome

The Question

17-02-10, 09:07

Right, if this is true... Who wants some High Elves?:D

EDIT: Just had two separate sources tell me the same so yay! More Skaven for my horde!

More 8th Edition Rumours:
Plastic Griffon in the box set (If you had told me this before Black Reach's Dreadnought and Deffkopta's I'd have laughed in your face, but now...
Also new High Elf Spearmen and a plastic Skaven Warpfire thrower team. Team is robed with WWI-style gas-masks(AWESOME!).

New Orc boys
New Orc Boar Boys (I told you!)
Plastic Dark Riders

Next army up is the Ogre Kingdoms (BOOOO!!!!)

DOUBLE EDIT: Just read ColFestus, now I feel stupid...

The Question

19-04-10, 09:04

8th edition rulebook will be released in July, with the box set in September.

Pils

19-04-10, 09:30

I just can't wait for it, i know that one of the first armies is Ogre Kingdoms, of which i am a fan, but i was wondering if anyone knows what the armies coming out are? Ogres, High Elves... who knows. I'm just hoping for a new Dwarf book.

Dan

28-05-10, 07:02

Chaos Dwarfs!

The Question

28-05-10, 09:42

Chaos Dwarfs!

Wrong! The next army is Cathay, allied with the Fimir!

Also, what do people think about the rulebook cover artwork in this month's WD? Not a fan personally, and Spike made a comment about 'The hammer looks like it's jet powered.'

Stan

29-05-10, 07:48

the cathay army is long overdue, i just hope they dont clearly rip off chinese military history, it needs to be somthing good to kick start the warhammer revival

Jade Phoenix

31-05-10, 08:39

New system, same old rules! Thats what happens with each new warhammer system, now before you all start bitching im a warhammer man of 20+ years and every new system i have hoped for some ground breaking change to keep the system from slowly dying. However all the reliable sources and GW themselves point to a few superficial changes, add a +1 here for frontage, move the magic phase again and add a modifier to miscasts. OMG WOW those seem huge ............not, yet brainless muppets still seem to bounce around about it.

The new rule book is advertised as GW's thickest book, it wont have army lists, so does this mean its filled with even more rules than the last :eek: because most people cant cope with that. Im not fussed i play starfleet battles so the rules arent a problem for me but when you are playing someone and you have to keep stopping them and say you cant do that or this or the other because of rule so an so on page 485 it kinda sucks the fun out of it.

Lastly some of the figures are getting so childish it just takes the ****, its a game of dark fantasy, yet the figures are becoming more like they have come out of a cartoon, Trolls (being sick, was that needed), Razorgors, Giant, Boarboys just to list a few:( .

The warhammer guys realy need to get a grip and have a new idea :confused: for once.

Fox1

31-05-10, 11:52

Iv not really played Warhammer in the past much (only a few times0 simply because iv always been put off by what I see as "clunky style rules", so will this new system be any different. well there are people at GW saying it has been influenced by the new War Of The Ring rules in that there is no wheeling and formation changing etc now you move the same as the WoTR system and that charges will be a set distance and then you roll for a charge distance, same as WoTR, its no good them simply copying that system though because that would not give Warhammer its own “style” and the game should have its own "style of play" and not be a copy of another game.
So far in my opinion GW have scored twice big time with the new 40K which I think plays really well and the new War Of The Ring system, again a system that to me feels very gritty and tactical, so can they do it with the new Warhammer? I think jade is right about some of the new figures to me they seem as though they have a "Warcraft" style to them and just don’t appeal to me, yes Warhammer is a high fantasy system, but it used to be very dark and i think its lost some of that so for me id like to see the rules change and become less complicated and resemble medieval warfare more and the figures to become darker in their style of sculpting, also id like to see the background change some...but hey that’s just my opinion:)
So will the new book be all it promises well they have the opportunity to score another success so lets hope they don’t miss out, we should get a copy in store soon I would think to have a peek at it will certainly be interesting what they come up with... i hope it meets all peoples expectations and is a great book:)

KingTiger

31-05-10, 03:54

maybe they should just go back through all there previous editions, see what worked there and combine them all together, or at least try to, instead of trying to create something new by copying existing systems.

I'd also agree about the new models, some are really nice, especially characters, the dark elf characters stick out allot for me, but allot just seem cartoony and plastic (not in reference to the material used, its just after painting they look plastic, if you get what I mean), hardly scary at all, heck the new empire models stopped me having any interest completely (combined with the whole HEROhammer rubbish and how dominating Magic could be, made me lose interest in fantasy quite allot, I buy the books, but I got better things to do than play a bad rulesystem, never seemed to be a middle ground)

Pils

31-05-10, 05:01

I'm sorry but i still love this system, it is by far my favortie out of all teh games that games workshop do. I like that the rules are complicated and that there are alot of them, with the need to plan out what you are going to do in each turn with specific units.

As for people complaining about 'herohammer' yes you can tool up lords upon dragons that can destroy units and that can tip the battle in your favour, but it's a large point sink, and are still quite fragile, nothing in the game can be made truly unbeatable, every army can make super killy heros to counter other killy heros, but in the end it's the armies that win the games, with what ever tactics you use and whether you have out thought your enemy.

The magic system is also NOT over powered, not in the slightest, yeah some spells in the game can destroy units in one go, others can cause large damage to the opposing army, but again this all comes down to planning and whether you've out thought your oppoenent with magic/dispell dice. And in the end there are always dispell scrolls to stop that one spell that you need to, so in no way is it overpowered, if anything it's underpowered from what it used to be.

The game writers have drawn back off the things that have worked in the past like the percentages, people on here have said well why have they gone back to how it was yet criticised that they havn't looked back. I would hope that some of the people who enjoy criticising this rule system before it's come out and are relying on rumours should wait for the rule system.

As for the cartoony models, every game system has some bad models, they also have some damn good ones, the daemon range was one of the best, the vampire ones too, yes some were not as hoped for but many have been, so give it some time, the new skaven models are the ones to base our judgement off as they're the ifrst of the new books and there models were good.

Also some ideas on why the book is so big is probably because it's rules+fluff+scenarios, which most of the old rule books didn't have.

Fox1

31-05-10, 07:02

Pills you are one of the most experienced warhammer players around id say baring jade and a few others and a lot of people respect your opinions, so with the all new singing dancing Warhammer upon us, my question to you and any other experienced warhammer players is:
If you had the power to write the new rule set for warhammer what 3 things would you want to change about the system the most and why?
Im interested to find out what experienced players would change if they had the GW power!! :)

KingTiger

31-05-10, 07:12

The magic system is also NOT over powered, not in the slightest,
well I used to have my entire empire army wiped off the table by turn 3 via magic, and that was a very regular thing against different armies, so I'm kinda biased against magic really when that happens as regular as it did...and were talking every single game here, next to herohammer (I hate seeing 1 guy on horse wipe out 20 spearmen) its why I completely stopped and I will never play again, I just don't think it will be fixed.

but thats just my opinion based off my experiences of fantasy, it just so happens they have pretty much all been negative because of the system itself.

Jade Phoenix

31-05-10, 07:35

1) Display the figures better using movement trays similar to LOTR but not the same as. This would make the game look better and make movement faster.

2) Make the game more dark fantasy, no characters with silly names or cartoon style figures.

3) Each phase needs to be made more simple rules wise while still giving you all the options, its a tough task but new games have managed it.

Stan

31-05-10, 07:58

1) Simplify the movement system, currently it is so slow, and mentally draining, and that its no fun to endure, the half move this, quater move that etc.... far too slow, and detremental to the flow of the game

2) The game should reflect the dark nature of the background, gritty, with the background reflecting the effect units have on field, i.e. elves in the background are immensely powerful, magical, disciplined creatures with hundreds of years experience but it isnt reflected in the game.

3) I think the magic phase needs some tweeking, but i think they are heading this way, so that the spells that can truly destroy entire units require 20+ to cast, not that many exist.

For notes on herohammer, it is no more extreme than wotr, using certain heroes in the right combinations, or with certain units result in companies that can slaughter 40+ models per fight. this is no more extreme or dominating than a legendary hero on a dragon causing the same scale of damage.

As for magic, is you are being slaughterer by it game after game, then change your tactics, every army can stop magic dominance, and there are only a few armies that have enough magic to over power these defences completely, and those are severely hindered elsewhere on the field.

Furthermore, the chief concern of the wotr game thus far has been abuse of the magic to achieve a number of certain results that in effect break the flow of the game, and are out of character of the game spirit, or plain right dominant. for e.g. the council of wizadry is the equivalent of teclis or master wizard, and cause no less damage equivalent in wotr than in warhammer. its really about how you prepare for it.

im really just pointing out that there are many similarities between systems effects that people have overlooked. or have just had bad experiences with and so curse the system, where they really haven't had the experience to adapt their style of play.

Robcoulman

31-05-10, 09:18

Don't know how much it qualifies me to add things on, but I started playing with Second Edition (Which I really shouldn't have got rid of but hey ho!)

What I've always sought is an epic game that allows skill and tactical acumen to come out above everything. I want to see powerful characters representing the might of their society, now the one time I really think that GW got it right was in the WAB supplement Age of Arthur.

I like to see:-

1. Large units of troops on the field - by which I mean 25+ figure units, not 10 man units of Infantry.
2. The ability for hero's to influence the battle, but not 'over dominate' the game
3. Magic being tempered to support the battle and again not over dominate.
4. The game being fun and quick to play.

I've not really taken any notice of the rumour mill, I suspect I'll invest when the time comes and see what happens.

Rob

Dave

01-06-10, 09:20

1) Sort out the overcomplicated movement phase (but don't make it too simple, as redirecting charges, bait-and-flees and other tricks are what makes warhammer different from 40k and fun to play).

2) Make it more about the infantry! More/bigger blocks (I don't really have this problem being a skaven player and all). More benefits for larger blocks of troops.

3) Get rid of daemons :D

WeAreGrey

01-06-10, 12:10

Jade Phoenix

01-06-10, 01:11

Demons are the only bit they have right at the mo, they should be the nastiest things around.

Pils

01-06-10, 02:33

Well it's good to see more life in the Warhammer section now :D

Daemons are a lot harder than a lot of armies out there but as Jade has said, they've got them right, daemons should be one of the hardest armies out there, with the biggest nastiest monsters and a mass of elite troops, daemons are made for combat. But in campaigns for warhammer daemons don't take much of a part and are, or should be, in moving about the map where the magic flows, so i think it'd balance out.

Three things i would change...

1. As has been said before benefits for big units, large blocks of infantry, with the ability to be put in formations perhaps? Rules for phalanx like infantry tactics which could hamper movement but give bonus armour saves? Or have the option for some units spread out more in case of enemy artillery fire but loose rank bonus if in combat in this formation? These kinds of benefits would be nice

2. The movement phase is always a hot topic, people hate it, but it has everything in it, with redirecting charges, options to flee, all kinds of things, but i do like it how it is, so it's rather a love and hate relationship we all have with it. In the end... it could do with being simplified, maybe through cutting back on some of the rules for wheeling perhaps, but it's a hard one

3. The biggest thing that warhammer is currently missing is 'missions' most battles fought are the standard pitched battle, which is nice, but a little dull, the rule book should nudge players in the direction of objective based games, but not the same as the 40k system, i do like the 40k system but i don't think it works that well. The objectives could be placed as a certain pass that must be held, or a tower to capture, gold mines etc, but instead of the winner being determined by who has it at the end of the game it's a points based system like in the legendary battles in one of the White Dwarfs, where if you own an objective on turn 1 you get 1 point, 2 for turn two and so on, so that by the end of the game if you've held an objective for 5 out of the 6 turns and on the 7th it gets contested it shows who has truly been claiming the objectives. This will urge people away from just a killing ground in the centre of the board and make people change there armies to be able to move quick to capture/contest the objectives and then move infantry forward to cement your hold on them.

Stan

01-06-10, 04:58

with regards to your third point, its a good idea to break from the standard fluke of contesting an objective in the last turn, but how would that work if your army has all but deen annihilated come the end of the game, and the enemy has taken the objective last turn, it doesn't in this instance fairly demonstrate that as much as the objective was held for a while it eventually fell, and at the end of the battle its not so much a case of who held it the longest but who held it come the end of the fight. (at least for most objectives, capturing a tower, town, river, bridge, etc) perhaps a refined 1 point per turn held, and 3 points for the last game turn as it is the decisive point of the battle?

Pils

01-06-10, 05:24

Well that's just it, it's a suggestion, certain scenarios would have different rules, if the mission was a last hope left behind to save time for those preparing a city/town/fort for a proper defence.

As i said, it's a suggestion

Fox1

01-06-10, 05:49

Again only rumours from GW staff but they have said that the new game"could" :rolleyes: be much more mission based and that the game "could":rolleyes: have a much bigger focus on infantry blocks than ever before...as a kinda novice on the warhammer front i think a Deamon army should be rock hard, some players will know what i mean when i say "like a dark legion first ed army" :D
Who knows if the new rules are good it may even give me a reason to paint up some tomb kings, although a lot of people say wait until their army book is redone as at the moment the army doesnt work very well? any feed back/advice on tomb kings?

Pils

01-06-10, 06:43

As alot of Warhammer player know i love the undead armies, i do Vampire counts rarther than Tomb kings, but... i've always been unsure if i made the right choice as the Tomb king army is so different.

In the current book massed archers seems to work best for an armies core, in large units, this is to get the best effect from the Tomb king incantations making them able to fire twice per turn, this in combination with a hill to fire in multiple ranks can be pretty deadly, pluss your undead archers always hit on a 5+ no matter what, which is the same as a human at long range and great for killing skirmishers, especially elf ones. The same shooting applies to the screaming skull catapults, your incantations can get them fireing twice a turn, with the skulls of the enemy upgrade you have a decent chance of breaking enemy units, this could be made better if the new rules go the way of 40k with no partials, that'll make stone throwers deadly, but even if not they can get a potential 21 models under the template for a perfect shot.

As for the rest of the army it's all good really, big monsters like giants and ushabti can hit hard flanks, fast light cavelry to harras enemy, pluss with the changed movment rules for chariots in the current system they can pull there own as long as you watch out for st7 hits. But as the core of the army with your general are Tomb Guard a scary units, tough, good save and the ability to move twice, more incantations, to get sneaky charges and they have killing blow and can be brought back to life, pretty nifty i think.

The only downside the army has is it's hierophant, if he dies the army pretty much falls to pieces and at best you'll get a draw, the same happens with my Vampire counts, when my leader dies you started to crumble and people know this and will be after your hierophant, so keep him safe!!!

All in all a good army, flexible in every way really, it's a shame you can't march properly, but units that have to move fast can be made so with incantations, all your Priests and Tomb princes can cast magic which is always handy, the acutal magic it's self isn't that great though and is easy to dispel but you get alot of it. Plus the Tomb princes/kings them selves are some of the toughest characters in the game.

Baicly to start an army, a block of 20+ Tombguard with a Tomb king in, several large units of Skelli spearman/handweapon and shield, and then some flanking units of archers, some Princes and Priests scattered about the units, maybe some ushabti/giants on one flank with some light cavelry and then light chariots or cavelry on the other, then form a soild line, the most elite enemy units with archers, so that your Tomb Gaurd can get the advantage in combat while engaing other units with normal skelli units, even the archer units if need be, they all still cause fear and can almost go toe to toe with standard units.

Dan

02-06-10, 07:44

Not being an expert on warhammer but certainly an experianced player I feel confident in saying the Tomb King army is HARRRRRRRD! They aren't easy to use and have some downsides such as inability to march and the detrimental effects of losing your tomb king/ liche but by god their elite troops are hard as nails and their magic is awesome. The archers shooting capabilities are also very reliable. The difficult bit about playing Tomb Kings is the balance of these units, and protecting your tomb king and heirophant.

1. I like the 5 part movement phase in warhammer, it's interesting, but part 1 - the actual move including wheeling, changing face, etc needs to be improved. It's clunky and slow.

I'll add the other 2 when I have time, off to work!

Robcoulman

04-06-10, 07:40

Hmm - Demon's. No problem with the concept, BUT....there must be a downside. Ultimately take the Warhammer position and Demon's only arrive where the Winds of magic are strong. Many races have spent Millenia fighting againt the Demons (Elves and Slann/Lizards with a very strong collective histroy of smashing Demon armies back where they belong!!!).

So why would any half decent general face them in a battle when with strategic withdrawals and strong Magic just wait until they dissipate under 'normal' circumstances as the winds of magic fail. Okay specific times when the winds are strong that may change it - but that brings to the next subject....

Scenario's. Scenarios should be played whenever people can - this just takes some effort and thought, rather than the way things normally develop -
"play a battle" - Gamer 1
"yeah, how many points" - Gamer 2
"2,000 okay" - Gamer 1
"yeah - see you at the club" - Gamer 2

Game on and strangely pitch battle. But why not theme the game and link them - invasion, Ambush, border attacks, capture the strongpoint. All things are possible - just think why you are playing the game and theme an idea. 10-15 minutes more work and more fun. Som who's fault is that - answer ours. We make the game "boring" because it's the easiest form of the game and turn up and play works.

Rob

Warlord_Krumpit

05-06-10, 09:25

I personally can't wait for the new edition! The only issue i have with it is that its being released when i head off to university so i wont be able to attend stags except during the holidays. In my opinion games workshop are onto a winner with this one! They simply cannot afford to make a duff system. As already stated they have the advantage of using war of the ring to play test different approach to the rules system, this is something they have been unable to do before. Being able to cherry pick the best bits from two different rules systems instead of just modifying an old one will help them immensely.

I am looking forward to the changes to the move system, where supposedly you just measure from the furthest away model and then plonk them down where you want them. The current system involves too much faffing about and its hard to get my younger brother to stick to it. I do not think it will sacrifice too much depth as the maneuvers will be the same it will just save time.

In regards to the kiddish models i offer the solution of not buying them. If they do not sell well games workshop will maybe move away from this style. However i believe that these models will appeal to the war craft crowd and that's all good in my books. Anything that can drag them from their computers into a room full of real people for a trouncing by my vampire counts is all good in my book. Also if your turned off by the whole High Fantasy Heroism look all it takes is a a few simple conversions, a paint scheme & writing yourself a bit of KILL MAIM BLOOD MUTILATION PLAGUES DEFORMITY fluff and your sorted.

Hmm so three things id like to change, il start off with a selfish one
1) BRING BACK VAMPIRE LORDS
If my army is going to crumble to dust when my general dies, i want the biggest baddest M**** *****R i can leading it!
2)A greater focus on scenarios, the ability to have a few simple scenarios to play with off that bat and without the expenditure of too much mental effort before 12 on a sunday morning.
3)Speed up the movement phase.
As i already stated.
I think il get 2 out of three of them from gw so i'l be pleased.

In conclusion from looking at the rumors, it looks like the system is going to get more complicated but make more sense with a lot more difference between different types of models which will only give the game more tactical depth. *gets on with his college work*